I'd plug the respins and freemedia efforts as a fix for the static image issue. Also while I'd have to look at how well the load balancing would go I as a member fo the respins sig whom has become more or less a multi-boot custom updated go-to I'd be willing to make a quarterly ? multi that would/could go on my VPS and most likely alt/live-respins ( the space exists and we have done one off multis there before. Complete with torrents maintained by the respins-sig tracker if needed for those with less than stable/ reliable internet access.

@jbwillia @nb @dmossor @nirik

I think its possible to find Chinese usb's with 2 gb for arround $2 ( good quality )

Any news on this? Updates?

USB webkeys execute a sort of keyboard app (in poor words) on your PC and theoretically can also be harmful, as they could be used to download malware on your PC just by inserting the key into it.

If we're the ones creating and flashing them, is this a concern we would need to have as Ambassadors? I'm not sure if I understand the risk of us ordering and distributing these ourselves. Is there a concern that the distributor might pre-load malware onto drives that we order?

Personally, I would say webkeys, by pretending to be a keyboard and attempting to launch a browser window, exhibit unexpected behavior towards the user and can be interpreted like malicious devices. I wouldn't be a fan of us distributing those.

My preferred solution is locating a good USB flash drive distributor and assigning the same budget towards those that DVDs got, and simply give them away more carefully (e.g. after people strike a conversation). Preferably large enough to hold a Workstation image, but FMW would be fine too.

Shameless plug, USB flash drives can be used on site coupled with my Fedorator, allowing people to also choose the Spin or Lab they'd like - and hang out for about three minutes while it's flashing, creating a natural barrier against too many people taking them, in a way :).

Personally, I would say webkeys, by pretending to be a keyboard and attempting to launch a browser window, exhibit unexpected behavior towards the user and can be interpreted like malicious devices. I wouldn't be a fan of us distributing those.

@jflory7 this is exactly why we have concerns about webkeys. But this is the only concern I see, there are a lot of pros in favor of webkeys: possibility to create a very nice flyer and design, unexpensive, lightweight, easy to use. I see them targeting only Win and MAC Os users, while for those who want an image of an edition or spin, the USB key and Fedorator are probably best.

It would be interesting to know what kind of quotes we would get, that would also give this discussion a concrete aspect we all have to consider.

My preferred solution is locating a good USB flash drive distributor and assigning the same budget towards those that DVDs got, and simply give them away more carefully (e.g. after people strike a conversation). Preferably large enough to hold a Workstation image, but FMW would be fine too.
Shameless plug, USB flash drives can be used on site coupled with my Fedorator, allowing people to also choose the Spin or Lab they'd like - and hang out for about three minutes while it's flashing, creating a natural barrier against too many people taking them, in a way :).

Sure, giving DVDs away to everyone and find them outside of the room in the next trashcan is definitely wrong.

People who saying here "I think" have not tried it, and 2$ a media is more then 10 times higher as the price for a DVD. There are people like Jiri Eischmann and me, who invested a lot of time already in a research. Whoever suggests here webkey should please take a look what they cost, its way more as a DVD. Of course USB drives can be produced but what happens then is, you get for an event 3 or 5, then you will cry that it is not enough.

Btw you dont find even in China USB sticks for 2$ there you have to o to the so called grey market and we would have to uy there batches of 20.000.
Webkey as I said, are not cheaper you can buy nearly a stick for the same price, Jirka and me did a lot of research for them before we published F21 and there are no changes on the market.

@gnokii your comments on cost are correct. The conversations I've been having with people have focused on a two sided strategy.

1: For regions of the world where DVD drives are rare and internet is good (most of Europe, NA, selected countries elsewhere) we should stop making DVDs. We can move to a combination of self-service with something like Fedorator, paper takeaways (cards, cheat cubes, etc.) with urls on them and a very small number of Fedora provided USBs.

2: For regions with high numbers of DVD drives and poor internet we keep making DVDs. We may want to centrally produce them for cost or quality reasons. Centralization may also make it practical to produce a variety of types (Workstation, Server, lab, etc.)

The basic idea is to not produce useless objects where they can't be used but also to provide bits in a portable format where that is still critical. We also want quality items so no self-burns with no covers. We should show pride.

Also, just because a country falls into category 1 above doesn't mean they'll never have DVDs. It is trivial to share a few from a batch printed for a country in category 2. This way there is a DVD of it is absolutely needed.

@bex

1. I think EMEA already made that decision 2 releases ago

2. What you think I tried as first thing in APAC to centralize the production, but what shall I say it doesnt work that well. Its a it because we relaying on the goodwill of Harish who is always also a it busy. There is actually no problem importing DVD to China, there is a problem when an Ambassador takes it with him in the plane, not when we sending it via RH office Singapore to RH office Beijing.
   To be honest, for exactly such kind of organizational things we used the FAD but currently, we are in APAC orientless and why, because somebody changed the budgetting process and we dont know anything now, when we should do the FAD. We had the plan to make it on FUDCon to save money, but somebody decided to make FUDCon later as we usually did the FAD and had to provide the budget plan. We simple can not do this in IRC meetings and there are some good reasons for. Maye somebody should get out his geography book back from school and cut out the Phillippines and lay it over Europe and do the same with Indonesia and the US maybe then it becomes a bit clearer, that here are different problems.
   Nobody can say to me I give away useless things, there are several meeting logs where I say this. I am the person who did look into the trash bins on events. I found ther Jirkas flyer but no DVD ;)

@bex

I think EMEA already made that decision 2 releases ago

This is partially true. FAmSCo didn't want to produce DVDs anymore, but no decision was taken about its replacement. That's also the reason why NA came up with the crazy idea to burn them by do it sourself bex is referring to.
We need to give an answer to that soon.

What you think I tried as first thing in APAC to centralize the production, but what shall I say it doesnt work that well. Its a it because we relaying on the goodwill of Harish who is always also a it busy. There is actually no problem importing DVD to China, there is a problem when an Ambassador takes it with him in the plane, not when we sending it via RH office Singapore to RH office Beijing.
To be honest, for exactly such kind of organizational things we used the FAD but currently, we are in APAC orientless and why, because somebody changed the budgetting process and we dont know anything now, when we should do the FAD. We had the plan to make it on FUDCon to save money, but somebody decided to make FUDCon later as we usually did the FAD and had to provide the budget plan. We simple can not do this in IRC meetings and there are some good reasons for. Maye somebody should get out his geography book back from school and cut out the Phillippines and lay it over Europe and do the same with Indonesia and the US maybe then it becomes a bit clearer, that here are different problems.

Do you have any idea or concrete proposal how to solve this in your region? We are really trying to find the best way for any part of the world, so don't feel accused or whatever, your help and experience from former researches is appreciated.

Nobody can say to me I give away useless things, there are several meeting logs where I say this. I am the person who did look into the trash bins on events. I found ther Jirkas flyer but no DVD ;)

IIRC the example of DVDs in the trashcan happened in EU, just as demonstration DVDs are not useful anymore in EMEA and NA.

@bex

I think EMEA already made that decision 2 releases ago

yep. We are now trying to take that forward as a model.

What you think I tried as first thing in APAC to centralize the production, but what shall I say it doesnt work that well. Its a it because we relaying on the goodwill of Harish who is always also a it busy. There is actually no problem importing DVD to China, there is a problem when an Ambassador takes it with him in the plane, not when we sending it via RH office Singapore to RH office Beijing.

We can resolve these kinds of administrative issues. Let's focus on the solution, not the past. There are now more people and resources available.

To be honest, for exactly such kind of organizational things we used the FAD but currently, we are in APAC orientless and why, because somebody changed the budgetting process and we dont know anything now, when we should do the FAD. We had the plan to make it on FUDCon to save money, but somebody decided to make FUDCon later as we usually did the FAD and had to provide the budget plan. We simple can not do this in IRC meetings and there are some good reasons for. Maye somebody should get out his geography book back from school and cut out the Phillippines and lay it over Europe and do the same with Indonesia and the US maybe then it becomes a bit clearer, that here are different problems.

The budget process is not the problem here. There is money APAC is simply not meeting so there has been no authorization to spend it. There is no prohibition on FADs, for example, LATAM just had one. However, the council is not going to tell APAC how to be an effective region. Council is not going to tell you when to meet and what to talk about. @robyduck is working on some of these issues in Mindshare. But right now what we need leaders in APAC to step up. @pjp is starting to do that.

Nobody can say to me I give away useless things, there are several meeting logs where I say this. I am the person who did look into the trash bins on events. I found ther Jirkas flyer but no DVD ;)

I am not accusing you of this. I am saying that taking DVDs to a meeting in some countries is generally going to result in waste. In Cambodia, based on my experience and what you've shared with me, DVDs continue to be a necessity and are not useless.