Deleted literally over 1000 spam messages from telegram today.

Update on things I found after installed Telegram and joined the fedorajoin telegram group:
- Messages I typed in Discord aren't relayed to Telegram
- Telegram group has a verification process, but message I typed prior to verification was relayed

In other words: it's horribly broken and we'd be better off without this bridge running at all if it remains in this state.

We're not seeing these on the Telegram channel---perhaps because of the verification requirement there. So it looks like the discord bridge needs tweaking to ignore unverified messages?

I haven't a clue who set up the Telegram <-> Discord bridge. @hhlp @bt0dotninja @alciregi : would you know?

Okay so I will deduce that some other bot is "moderating" the telegram channel the way discord would - deleting messages AFTER they've been sent. In other words, they're relayed to IRC where it can not be deleted. Either the bridge needs to take that deletion into account (e.g. wait 3 seconds before forwarding messages and then check if it was deleted...) Or... disable bridge.

They are sent and deleted. It's not discord bridge, it's tg-irc. This issue is coming from IRC and has very little to do with Discord.

We've removed join-sig from Discord until this telegram-irc spam gets resolved.

To write one more reply before I close this window cause I really don't have the capacity to keep an eye on this right now...

• tg-fedjoin is a telegram-irc bridge managed by ... well I don't actually know who heh...
• tg-fedjoin relays A LOT of spam posted on telegram, to the IRC channel.
• Telegram has some moderation that removes all said spam, but not before it's already sent to IRC. Since this is IRC, that spam isn't exactly deleted.
• IRC gets forwarded to our Discord channel, causing a lot of spam on our end. There isn't any direct telegram-discord bridge as such.
• The issue should be resolved on the tg-fedjoin bridge, which should check for message deletion before forwarding it.

@ffreiheit please keep an eye on this thing for us :)

I expect it's the teleirc SIG:

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/teleirc-sig/

I also expect we'll remove the telegram channel at some point as we consolidate the move to Matrix/Element, so this should not be an issue in the long run.

@join-sig: is someone monitoring the channel on discord, because if not, we should perhaps close that channel and funnel people to channels that we do monitor? (We also don't have the capacity to monitor another channel)

I expect it's the teleirc SIG:

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/teleirc-sig/

Looks a lot like this got reported to them and ignored: https://pagure.io/sig-teleirc/infrastructure/issue/52

I also expect we'll remove the telegram channel at some point as we consolidate the move to Matrix/Element, so this should not be an issue in the long run.

I assumed that part of the reason to have join-sig on multiple chat protocols was to make it easier on the new community members (hop into a channel in for a chat service they're already on vs setting up a whole new thing and figuring out how to get to the right place).

If join-sig wants their chat bridged, I'd like to strongly suggest a few things:
1) Have a plan for which chat is the "main" one and make sure that's reasonably clear ("main chat: #join:fedoraproject.org -- also bridged to: a, b, c") in communications.
2) Consider using a single multi-protocol bridging bot instead of multiple separate ones. If that's not an option, make sure everything bridges off the the main (matrix) room.
3) Consider limiting to chat services that the bridge bot can delete and edit messages to and from (IOW: maybe don't bother with IRC because of its limitations?)

If all chats have some kind of moderation and the bridge can delete messages when deleted one place, this should mean that join-sig members in matrix can deal fine with incoming members in other chat services...

My specific suggestion is matterbridge with Matrix, Discord, and Telegram

Having these relaying through the protocol with the least features (IRC) is a core part of the problem we're having...

So, the first thing to consider is what resources we have at our disposal. The Join SIG does not have the resources to maintain bridges---we never have. We rely on other community members setting up bridges for the whole community. Folks (who now form the Teleirc SIG) came along and set up the teleirc bridge, so the Fedora community Telegram channels are bridged to IRC. We can use another bridge with more features, but someone needs to set it up. This it not something the Join SIG does/can do.

The main chat for the Fedora community is now Matrix/Element, so the Join SIG tries to monitor that. Matrix/Element is extremely accessible---in a browser, over the phone, desktop apps, so it's not that much extra work to login there. I've filed #271 to update our docs now.

I think a few folks are active on Telegram so that's also somewhat monitored. If there are folks on other platforms that are happy to follow the Welcome to Fedora process to onboard new-comers, that works too. If there are channels for the Join SIG but they're not monitored, we are better off disabling them.

https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Welcome-to-Fedora

I feel like we were talking to a wall here. Hun nobody asked you to maintain anything - we asked you to moderate the TELEGRAM which is the source of the spam.

Instead you banned the Discord bridge which was never source of any issues. Way to wall off new contributors. (The smartass who banned it actually caused it to fail to login, i.e. being inoperable for a week now on a large number of channels and communities. Good job.)

@rhea : there are so many things wrong with your reply here:

First, it does not meet the standards set out by the CoC: it is rude and condescending, and assumes malice, and uses terms like hun and smartass which are not acceptable ways of referring to community members.

This is not the first time you've communicated in this way over community channels, so I'll please suggest you re-read the CoC. If you are unable to communicate with the CoC in mind, please just don't. Other community members don't have to take this behaviour from you.

Next, you reply 9 months after with no context. At this point, I'm not even sure who you are speaking to. The first sentence is meant for @ffreiheit but the second is perhaps for me, but then who is the next paragraph for?

Third:

we asked you to moderate the TELEGRAM which is the source of the spam.

I already responded to this:

• we don't have the humanpower to moderate Telegram actively
• we're not seeing these spam messages on Telegram at all, so I don't know how to moderate them..
• we don't know who maintains the bridge---it isn't the TeleIRC SIG.

Instead you banned the Discord bridge which was never source of any issues. Way to wall off new contributors. (The smartass who banned it actually caused it to fail to login, i.e. being inoperable for a week now on a large number of channels and communities. Good job.)

Finally this bit: what even happened? Who banned the discord bridge, from where, to where? We're completely clueless here. You make such sweeping statements, you banned..: who are you referring to?

Please do better with your communications. This comment really does not do anything at all towards solving an issue, nor does it give people enough information to be able to help.

I don't think that you appreciate that I have my patients as well. A year of unresolved problems and people not listening to a single word just about does it. I don't care about Fedora project as a whole anymore, from my perspective the entire thing is one disaster piled up on top of another.

Don't care who maintains the spambot, it goes telegram->IRC->everywhere else. We reported it to you, to IRC, those are your channels, your actions to take. Not my responsibility. I don't know how else to put it, hopefully you get a blunt message.

My communication is just fine, and well justified as well. Cheers.

@rhea I know it’s not exactly my place to step in but I would say I completely agree with @ankursinha . No matter the situation, the malice that you are putting into these comments is completely inappropriate and unjustified. I too would suggest you go re-read the code of conduct.

I don't think that you appreciate that I have my patients as well. A year of unresolved problems and people not listening to a single word just about does it. I don't care about Fedora project as a whole anymore, from my perspective the entire thing is one disaster piled up on top of another.

Don't care who maintains the spambot, it goes telegram->IRC->everywhere else. We reported it to you, to IRC, those are your channels, your actions to take. Not my responsibility. I don't know how else to put it, hopefully you get a blunt message.

My communication is just fine, and well justified as well. Cheers.

It is not. You are free to volunteer or not, but if you choose to, you must adhere to the CoC. It is not optional, irrespective of the issues you may be running into with individuals or the community as a whole.

As for this ticket, it can go no further because I still don't know what the latest issue is :(

I don't know what happened to discord or the bridge, and I don't know how it's linked to this one (I thought the issue here was telegram -> irc -> discord?) What has been banned and where?

I'm happy to get involved here to try and help fix whatever the issue is, but I will only participate if the CoC is followed and we are excellent to each other. If you cannot do that, I'm out.

I just jump into this discussion because I am long time volunteering on Fedora Linux. I have to agree to @ankursinha that you @rhea should re-read the CoC! It's the heart of Fedoras community and have clear guideline how to interact and chat.
@rhea reflect about your way of communication which is inacceptable at all!

v/r
andilinux

I'd need to care to read the CoC - I quit Red Hat and Fedora-project for a reason, after all those years of suffering.

Please go ahead and close the ticket I suppose...

This ticket has been migrated to the forgejo instance. Please find the new ticket here
https://forge.fedoraproject.org/join/Fedora-Join//issues/270