Why would we delete spins.fpo? Fedora.next doesn't affect spins!

Replying to [comment:3 duffy]:

Why would we delete spins.fpo? Fedora.next doesn't affect spins!
It seems it will, but I'm not following the WGs in the actual process so I might be also wrong. Some of the main Spins could become a product in the future, the others will remain just spins.

I think we should delete spins.fpo as website anyway, this does not mean dropping just the content! We should find a solution to make spins (as product in the future or as spins) available under the Workstation product. This would be much more consistent than having on the main fp.o site the three products with the Workstation, and on the other hand spins.fpo with other "workstation" images. \
Btw, if it won't be affected, how would a spin image look like? I don't think it will be the same as now, it will follow the Workstation product, as DE are in the second ring.

As far as I know, there's been only a little discussion about spins. I don't think they're going away, but there might be some changes to what they look like. Proposal on that is TBD.

Draft Proposal for Fedora.next web

Ryan has been thinking about how we might approach Fedora.next with the websites and me and him had a whiteboard session late last week to brainstorm some ideas. We shared our ideas with mattdm yesterday and he seemed to think the approach was a good one, so I drew up this diagram last night to illustrate some of our whiteboard ideas:

[[Image(fedora-next-web_proposal-draft1.png)]]

Some random thoughts to clarify the proposal:

• We were initially thinking remaking www.fedoraproject.org into the contributor hub. Then we worried about how we would redirect old links from docs, articles, etc. Matthew pointed out how mozilla.org slowly over time transitioned firefox stuff to getfirefox.com. We could do something like that and have the www.fedoraproject.org full domain point to the community hub, which i think would be more desirable.

• When you first visit the community hub, we were thinking you wouldn't get any content unless you were logged in... kind of how twitter or facebook behave when you're logged out. This would free up a lot of space to help the fedoraproject.org transition from being the general site to a commnunity hub / contributor-focused site.

• what would happen to join.fpo? We'd integrate some of the FAS functionality into the contributor hub, so we'd have a new user onboarding workflow there that would set them up with a new fas account and walk them through applying to groups, etc. we'd like to handle password resets and group join requests with this too and leave fas more for group maintainers to use to manage their groups maybe.

• Re: the visual design in this proposal - none of this is anywhere near what we'd want things to look like. The little mockups are more to give you a sense of the general tone of the sites based on the inspiration sites we listed. We're looking at reddit as a model of how to organize the difference spaces in the hub - but unlike the reddit model, we were thinking each of the hubs could have a different custom feel - e.g., the design hub would be more graphics-focused, the developer hub might be more data-focused, ambassadors may have a map and calendar, etc. So this diagram is meant to illustrate that more than propose any sort of look and feel.

• We're hoping with the new architecture bits we have in fedora infra now like fedmsg we can keep these hub sites dynamic and engaging by pulling data down from the bus.

• We're also hoping to integrate these hubs with hyperkitty to make discussions on mailing lists more accessible.

• Matthew mentioned one of our current issues in collaboration across groups - having to cross post messages to multiple mailing lists / multiple team locations. We thought we could maybe have a model in the community hub where you could break out a new hub space (the same way you can break out a new subreddit on reddit) that are project-focused to help allay that issue. Just a thought.

Okay, hope this makes sense. What do you think?

Sounds incredible.
Having a websites design against a profile (logged-in contributor, simple user...) is fantastic IMHO and we already thought about this years ago.

We are kinda mixing planet, start, fpo, fc.o... together. It needs to be designed on a clever way... But would be impressive.

A feature that I am writing here and to see how we can integrate (with mirrormanager?): how could we integrate stats. Like download stats and co.

Looks sweet!

Can we re-use ask.fedoraproject.org for the help/support site?

Also, implementing the hub(s) will take some significant work. We can do anything... but eventually figuring out a well defined scope (with hopefully mockups?) could help constrain what might otherwise turn in to a never-ending project. :)

updating ticket type while adding myself to cc.

I like this very much and it's more or less what we were thinking about when talking on the ML, but for sure it's more work (and probably much nicer) rewriting the whole site. We spoke a bit about this on IRC, so just for tracking:
* Maybe we can create a new fedora-web repo for f.next and archive the actual for F =< 20 somewhere
* I think bootstrap is the best solution, we are already working on it since a few weeks on the fudcon staging page
* we need to include RTL, the best and most up to date repo I found is Morteza's one here: https://github.com/ratnic/bootstrap-rtl
* we also want to redesign our arch, all sites should use the same main bootstrap.css and same layout, I'm thinking about start.fpo, fudcon.fpo etc.

Hopefully I can find some time during this weekend to come up with a customized bootstrap CSS file, I think it will be the best to compile a new fedora-bootstrap.css with a less compiler, in order to fit all our needs. My thought is also to have the webpages not-responsive for mobile devices, in order to let them zoom out the pages automatically (and to save man power).

One thing to note is that in the future (My estimate is it won't get off the ground for F21 but by F22 we'll definitely see a little bit of this) is that we'll have more products than we do now. Those products won't necessarily have non-overlapping audiences (multiple desktop-oriented products, for instance). This is because current fesco thinking is that the Fedora Project is somewhat equivalent to the Apache Incubator http://incubator.apache.org/ . If this is what the future holds we might want to start thinking about pushing end users towards brochure sites branded for individual Products rather than having a single Fedora Project site that is our main entrypoint to getting the Products.

This is not to derail the current redesign -- just something to keep in mind as some of these ideas might need to change a few releases from now.

Looks amazing. I really like your layout, however, I think you should add a tad bit more content on the "brochure" site. That site seems to target users with low technical knowledge. Sysadmins who would like to use Fedora on their servers might be driven away by the low amount of information provided on the website. The frontpage should be modern and clean, but there should be enough there to satisfy more advanced users. Chrome and Firefox are both directed towards the "normal" end user, but Fedora, being a linux operating system, should be targeting a slightly different group of users.

Few more thoughts.

• Let's try to meet to move fast'n forward: https://dudle.inf.tu-dresden.de/privacy/fnext-websites/
• On big point is the Hub website. We need login support therefor we need a web-app (Flask or Pyramid to fit the actual infra). We need to define if the contributor view will be the same for all logged contributor or should be FAS (group?) specific. However, is is a really completly new concept. We need to move this to a new web-app. It should be released for F21 but is not critical. It's clearly a new feature with dynamic content (datagrepper).
  We need more workforce idea on that.

However, what have to be updated is:
- start.fpo
- get.fpo
- fpo
- others as read before

get.fpo could be a redirect to fpo as seen on the mockup. And this website should be static as all others but hub.fpo. Not seen as a web-app. same build arch as actually with Genshi for I18n. It would feature all products in a smart and clean way. Robert started at stg.fpo.

Replying to [comment:19 shaiton]:

We need to define if the contributor view will be the same for all logged contributor or should be FAS (group?) specific.

I would like it to be ''user'' specific, with FAS group info being part of what informs the content each user sees.

Let's meet tomorrow!

on Thursday the 6th of March at 18:00UTC on #fedora-meeting-2
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20140306T18&p1=136&ah=1

I started a wiki page.. You can edit a better agenda, or add other entries before the meeting.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Website_redesign/fedora.next

Thanks, Hoping Freenode would be online for everyone.

Replying to [comment:20 mattdm]:

Replying to [comment:19 shaiton]:

We need to define if the contributor view will be the same for all logged contributor or should be FAS (group?) specific.

I would like it to be ''user'' specific, with FAS group info being part of what informs the content each user sees.

It would be the best. But it needs a lot more details (for code arch). I am also +1 for this.

FWIW, here is the source to the getfedora mockup that i showed in the meeting last week:

https://github.com/ryanlerch/mockups-getfedora

and a quick version will be hosted and infrequently updated here:

http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/getfedora

cheers,
ryanlerch

Looks sweet.

A small update here:

The '''"f.next"''' branch has been created and we can start importing Ryan's brochure-mockup. We should also:
* delete /using and /features
* drop content and scripts we no longer need
* cleanup CSS and use bootstrap css files. Ryan compiled it again but if needed, LESS files are available [https://github.com/robyduck/fedora.next-bootstrap here]
We probably want to create a new repo when ready for F21 final, but we need to keep the actual one at least for F21 Alpha and Beta, because they will be handled with the actual webpages and design.

The brochure has been imported to the f.next branch. I fixed some stuff and adapted the page to our templates and build arch, so you can see it as fp.o/get-fedora because all pages are coming up.

Don't care too much about the old pages, I left the old css files there but obviously they now look bad. I'm creating also a shared directory for all the conf files we will share on the other pages too. The footer will be set as a template, it's still to create but it's rather easy to implement at this point.

I also didn't care about genshi and the scripts we had on get-fedora, we can use them somewhere else or drop them. The pages, images and css files have been imported "as is", accordingly to Ryan's github repo: https://github.com/ryanlerch/mockups-getfedora

Patch removing features & using from f.next

http://polr.cf/75 (on dropbox)

Patch was too large to upload onto Trac.

Updating this ticket to write down the actual status for everyone:

First of all, f.next branch is created and has already two (incomplete) pages:
* brochure (which will be the getfedora.org domain page)
* workstation overview (which will take the user to other more specific pages)

'''Brochure''':[[br]]
This will be the entry page for all Fedora users. As described above it has the main download links and introduces the user to the three products.[[br]]
On top of that page I created a basic dropdown menu with bootstrap, which collpases to the classic mobile button when the width gets too small. The menu needs probably some CSS, maybe we should ask design team how to implement it the best way, I think it should be as unobtrusive as possible. Also the collapsed button needs to be positioned, now it's somewhere in the header...finally, as the menu will be used on every page, we need to create a template for it, remember it's all html5.

'''Workstation''': (also Server and Cloud)[[br]]
The page shouldgo under getfedora.org/workstation (it's the index.html page there). The best in my opinion would be to have 3 directories under getfedora.org where we can put all the pages needed for every single product. We ''can and should'' use the same layout of the workstation index page also for Cloud and Server, and we will use obviously shared scripts and variables.

For example, under workstation we will have:
* other-downloads.html
* spins.html
* verify.html
* keys.html (probably we should share this specific page)
* prerelease.html

while under Server/ we will have:
* ARM.html
* verify.html
* ...

under Cloud/:
* public_services.html
* verify.html
* EC2_tutorial.html

In the end we need a new footer (shared and therefore as template) and we need, once we'll have some content, to do I18n.

The contributor hub probably will be the last thing to do, but it's a great work. I think we could start, if we are able to have a working framework here, with a few hubs, to integrate step by step for other groups. Mo is doing already the login page, so we will soon have a draft of that too.[[br]]
The contributor hub could also go under fedoraproject.org, otherwise under hub.fedoraproject.org (we'll make a redirect then).

The actual logos, which got the most feedback, will be:
* http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/00-c-series.png
Some of them in single images and the SVG are available at: (thanks duffy)
* http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/fedora-logos/next/c-drafts/

I hope I didn't forget anything, otherwise I'll add it here.

F21 released.