The Fedora Server WG is seriously contemplating changing the naming convention for its distribution media.
We have developed a naming convention that we would like to follow. It can be found here.
As we began our research in preparation of s system-wide change proposal, we discovered two things: 1. The current naming convention has it's tentacles far and wide thought the distribution generation processes, distribution processes and documentation. 2. The Fedora Server WG recognizes quite clearly that "we don't know what we don't know".
We are hopeful the Release Engineering team will assist in the early stages of acquiring the necessary knowledge to develop a cogent and complete system-wide change.
We need help in identifying all the areas within Fedora Project that would require change.
We need help in developing a detailed statement of work for each of the areas requiring change.
We would greatly appreciate it if the Release Engineering team would assign someone from the team to work with us and serve a "guide" for us as we attempt to complete the two above objectives.
I have been appointed as the point of contact for this effort.
We look forward to engaging with the Release Engineering team for this effort.
Metadata Update from @jnsamyak: - Issue tagged with: changes, investigation, meeting
I replied to your list post. I can copy that here? Or we can just discuss on the list.
Metadata Update from @patrikp: - Issue assigned to patrikp
I have taken the liberty of posting a response from Kevin Fenzi.
On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 10:16:55AM GMT, John W. Himpel wrote:
yeah.
We have developed a naming convention that we would like to follow. It can be found at: https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/126
ok. I have tried to sort of follow it, but haven't dug in deep yet.
As we began our research in preparation of s system-wide change proposal, we discovered two things: 1) The current naming convention has it's tentacles far and wide thought the distribution generation processes, distribution processes and documentation.
yes, renaming things is HARD. It requires changes to compose configurations, and in some cases changes to compose tooling if they don't support the name you want to use. It needs changes not only there, but in compose scripts, then in QA stuff, then in tools that look for images, then in websites to point to the right names and finally... users will have to adjust any tooling they have to download/test/consume things.
It's gonna be a long road. ;)
2) The Fedora Server WG recognizes quite clearly that "we don't know what we don't know".
Thats true for everyone. ;)
We are hopeful the Release Engineering team will assist in the early stages of acquiring the necessary knowledge to develop a cogent and complete system-wide change. Firstly, we need help in identifying all the areas within Fedora Project that would require change. Secondly, we need help in developing a detailed statement of work for each of the areas requiring change.
We can try, but releng is pretty overloaded/doesn't have too many spare resources.
Off the top of my head, places needing changes:
We would greatly appreciate if the Release Engineering team would assign someone from the team to work with us and serve a "guide" for us as we attempt to complete the two above objectives. I have been appointed as the point of contact for this effort. We look forward to engaging with the Release Engineering team for this effort.
We would greatly appreciate if the Release Engineering team would assign someone from the team to work with us and serve a "guide" for us as we attempt to complete the two above objectives.
We can discuss it in our next weekly meeting and see if we can see someone who can help.
kevin
@patrikp: Is KIWI currently able to generate/create an installation media image. i.e. One that can be used by anaconda to install an image from scratch? What is the best method for communicating questions to you?
I am not 100% sure what you mean by 'installation media image'. The current 'dvd' and 'netinstall/boot' iso images?
Those are currently created via pungi calling lorax. I don't know that kiwi can make them.
Possibly on matrix you could meet up?
Best way to handle it would probably be to use this ticket for questions whenever you run into issues. That way all of us can see it and chime in.
@jwhimpel Do you happen to have a status update on how the change proposal is going? Is the intent to land the changes in time for F41 release?
I am not 100% sure what you mean by 'installation media image'. The current 'dvd' and 'netinstall/boot' iso images? Those are currently created via pungi calling lorax. I don't know that kiwi can make them. Possibly on matrix you could meet up?
It is probably possible to make netinstall/boot.iso with kiwi by creating an "anaconda live session" variant (since that's mostly what it is). The only difference between dvd and netinstall iso is the injected anaconda config and image-local repositories for anaconda. I don't know how they are made and I've not really looked into it.
For SUSE distributions, they use a separate tool called product-builder to extend a kiwi run to produce install media: https://github.com/openSUSE/product-builder
product-builder
We'd probably want an equivalent for Fedora/CentOS if we want to build install DVDs with kiwi.
FYI: @dcavalca @tdawson
The Fedora Server group is very small and has little to no knowledge of how the build process works. So we will not be completing this change by F41. We may not even be able to make this change by F42. In a recent video conference with someone who was familiar with the Release process (though not a current member of the team). It was suggested that we first convert our "images" and our DVD files to be generated via kiwi, compare results against current "images" and our DVD files for consistency, then implement that set of changes. After that round is complete, generate the images and DVD files using the new naming convention, find all of the references in the wiki and web pages referencing the old names, updated the names and urls to the new naming convention. We expect this be a rather drawn out process. We have moved our WG meetings to weekly so that we can make quicker progress on this effort.
FYI @osinside
Metadata Update from @jnsamyak: - Issue untagged with: meeting - Issue tagged with: f42
My understanding is we have a plan to be ready for when this request is ready for implementation. Can someone confirm my understanding is correct? :smile:
We are currently looking into improving the documentation of the compose process. Hopefully once it's done it will also be useful for your (Fedora Server folks) own investigation regarding the proposal. In the meantime feel free to ask questions in this ticket! :thumbsup:
Metadata Update from @jnsamyak: - Issue untagged with: f42
@patrikp Any progress on this?
Metadata Update from @zlopez: - Issue tagged with: blocked
Let's get this updated with gain and trouble so we can gauge the work!
I tried looking into this but made virtually no progress. The way all of the infrastructure components interact with each other is far too complex. I would say it's low gain/high trouble and I fear I'm not the right person to work on this, I'm sorry.
Edit: There is talk about moving to Konflux in the nearish future. Should that happen we should be in a much better position to do something about this ticket.
Metadata Update from @patrikp: - Assignee reset
Konflux is unlikely to have an impact here, since Konflux is only building things. The name of the media is managed by Pungi primarily.
Thanks @patrikp for looking into it. It's perfectly fine to step back from it and kudos for doing so.
I think the issue is somewhat around the server sig not knowing whats possible, and releng not being able to rename things without knowing whats desired.
There also have already been some renaming in the move to kiwi I think?
Log in to comment on this ticket.